So yeah I was definitely going to post about this on thursday, but then something crazy happened and I couldn't. Or maybe I just decided to take a nap instead. I forget.
Actually there's really nothing left for me to say. Joe pretty much said what I thought in the last comment on the last thread.
Facebook is very much like any other entertainment product in the world. It's a tool. It can be good or bad, sweet or pointless. People can be mature or immature. They can catch up, or, as Jenn pointed out, they can kiss each other via cyberspace.
20 comments:
Very disappointing conclusion, Jacob.
i agree, quite disappointing.
Could you compare/contrast facebook and myspace for me... I'm interested in understanding why you hated myspace and love facebook.
gracias
-Melinda
ps jen, i hate to say this but your argument was also a bit disappointing. Just because YOUR friends leave stupid comments doesn't mean that facebook can't include biblical fellowship and build one another up. Also i do agree with Joe that you can keep in contact with college friends and other who you haven't seen in a long time and sometimes it's easier to keep in contact with a quick comment on their myspace/facebook instead of this formal e-mail (which would prob come back to you anyways because they always do!).
*sorry, i can never keep my stuff short either
Hey this is the worst conclusion to any argument I've ever heard you use, Jacob Lawrence.
I agree with all the disappointed folks here, but then again....I don't have a facebook so I guess I just discounted everything I said before. Ah well!
my disagreement with jake's conclusion and joe's thoughts are minor. while I agree that facebook is simply a tool, or a medium and can be used in any number of ways, good and bad, I would suggest that ending the discussion there misses something key.
And that is, to write off something as a "tool" that can be used for good or bad or pointlessness, doesn't take into account the fact that certain tools lend themselves to specific uses not directly linked to there primary purpose. Here's what I mean; home swimming pools are designed as tools to be used for several things...swimming, cooling off on a hot summer day, recreation etc...but pools bring to the table an issue not related to the purpose of pools. The issue of modesty. When discussing whether to get a pool or not, I'm not thinking mom and dad said, "well, like with any tool, a pool can be used for good (recreation), or evil (insert evil pool activity), so since this is the case and a pool is nuetral morally, we can get a pool and just make sure we use it well." No, they recognized that a pool brings to the table specific issues that can be a stumbling block to certain people. While those issues would never have stopped them from getting the pool, guidelines to protect against these issues were set into place.
Compare to facebook. To say that its a neutral tool, like anything else and arguments used against it could be used to argue against tv blah blah, ignores the fact that there is a particular issue, unrelated to the purpose of the tool, that facebook brings to the table; self-glorification.
MySpace was more blatant about it, but facebook does the same thing. I don't think I have to argue this much, because all you have to do is look for yourself. Facebook gives people creative control over how they want to be perceived by others in a way the real life does not allow. If someone makes a comment about you in person, you don't have 2 min or an hour to decide how to respond. In real life you can't make people see the best pictures of yourself. Its harder to be funny on the spot. In other words, in a day where image is everything, especially among insecure young people, MySpace and facebook say "Here, make people see what you want them to see." Of course, as Jenn has indicated, this usually goes along with a "and look at what everyone is trying to make you see, and laugh at them."
This, as I see it, is the unique problem with online networking sites. And you can't right it off as, "well, that's not what I use it for." Of course thats not why you use it. You use it for other reasons. People don't eat McDonald's to get fat either. People don't build pools in their backyard so they can invite immodesty into their home. But if you are going to have a pool, you better have a plan to fight immodesty. If you like McDonald's, you better like working out. If you use facebook, make sure you have real life friends too, to remind you that you aren't all that great.
I lost you on the pools and the self glorification thing. Couldn't you say the same thing about BLOGS? Writing a book? Singing a song at church? Do guns lend themselves to shooting people? You did a good job of spinning your argument to lob yourself a softball similar to playing a chess game against yourself.
One must first accept your assertion that facebook inherently lends itself to whatever you said. I reject the basis of your argument so I have to reject the conclusion, which you didn't actually share.
Ok, so that last comment proves I shouldn't post after midnight after studying for hours. The point is, I don't think I agree that Facebook inherently lends itself to what you said, and I don't think that most people use it in place of friends.
After reading my comment again, I realized I love reading things that I write...I need to write a book.
However, my argument wasn't very good, or clear I should say.
But one thing I did address was how you can't write the issue off with a "well can't you say the same thing about such and such" argument. It isn't such and such. When you spend an extended amount of time developing and using a site that is designed to revolve around yourself, there are particular problems with that. We should not be blind to those problems. that is my point.
it seems like Facebook is more about the comments, quizzes, pictures, questions, giving someone flowers, hugging someone, kicking someone, ect.
self glorification....FACEBOOK
i don't know if I see how self glorification fits in there, but an idol of relationships seems to be fed through FB and an obsession over each other/each others lives!
i see warning signs for how you communicate/WHAT you communicate to others on FB....
i have an issue, why do guys think they can cuddle with girls over FACEBOOK? Why do guys/girls send flowers to each other? Does anyone understand my question? Does this make anyone else uncomfortable? Would they normally do that in real life?
it's things like this that make me wonder....
*soooo what's the difference between myspace/facebook? And WHICH did you think was better again? please someone out there explain this to me!
-Mindy p
"An idol of relationships..."
As the Geico caveman says, "Um what?"
haha sorry Joe let me explain...
in my life i have an "idol of relationships" meaning I tend to “worship” my relationships with others more than my relationship God by craving others approval more than God’s, allowing the way others treat me to affect me more than it should, spending more time on my relationships with others than my relationship with God…ect.
when i look at facebook i see a factory ready to make more relationship idols in my heart as i can spend hours and HOURS feeding my craving for others love, attention, approval, ect. So…while I know some people can handle being on facebook and the temptation it can become, for me it’s simply not healthy
i hope i didn't confuse you more.
But that isn't what you said. You said that Facebook would feed that idol." By implication you seemed to be saying that is the case for everyone, but all you can really say is that facebook might feed that need for you. But even in this case facebook is still an a-moral tool that is causing a problem for you.
Haha. I agree, that was a snappy (in an odd way) conclusion. LOL.
I still do believe "that facebook would feed that idol" and although i wouldn't say that is the case for everyone (just like going to a bar could tempt some to get drunk but that's not the case for everyone)...still we must use wisdom. And as i've seen the pull facebook has on people and the time people spend on it i wonder if others are creating little relationship idols through this website as well. This is hopefully not sounding judgmental but instead just a WARNING from someone who�s been watching people get sucked in (and has gotten sucked in herself�thus I don�t have one ;)
it's just like everything else, TV could become an idol, food could become an idol...it doesn't mean dont eat or NEVER watch tv...but we must still use WISDOM and if you can't handle it, get off!
and i completely agree that "facebook is still an a-moral tool that is causing a problem for you [me]." but I'd wonder if others would have a similar struggle...
so jake to answer your question (although you're obviously not answering any of ours...thanks Joe for filling in for Jake ;):
-Good reason to use FB: catch up with friends, keep in contact, share pics, have fun....
-Good reason to get rid of FB: if you can't have self-control, if you're spending too much time on it, if your interactions with others have become inappropriate, if all the pictures on your page are of you and the ladies ;) if you would be embarrassed to show your parents your FB/interactions on FB
*I know you already answered the Q but I just felt like giving my opinion�what�s new ;)
Sometimes, I think you all think too much about things that are not quite that important.You definately use more words than the people I know. : )
By the way, that was just Ali, I accidentally put my nickname by force of habit....sorry. : )
thanks Melinda for coming to the same conclusion I did...and I didn't even have to convince you :-)!
still don't see the difference between facebook/myspace....i'd use the EXACT same conclusions for myspace as i did for facebook... i don't get why one should be run away from and the other accepted? but whatever i'm a Pino...i have a hard head
Wow. Very interesting. Joseph, I think you SHOULD write a book. That way, all your arguments would be in one place and whenever you wanted to win you could just hand them the chapter pertaining to that topic! :o) Just kidding! I agreed with your argument....
I do have a question on the differing degrees of worldliness within different areas. Take, for instance, that home swimming pool and the ever-current Facebook. Can you not come to the (general) conclusion that a good percentage of the use of a pool is not for worldly desires...but (in general) Facebook is? Sure there are many exceptions to the rule on either side, but as Christians we are to be in the world but not of it. If something is centered around the world, would we not want to abstain from it? Even if Facebook (MySpace, fill-in-the-blank) IS used solely for the purpose of keeping in touch with friends out of town or getting homework from your teacher, the SITE itself is worldly. It's worldly in that (as mentioned previously) it revolves around the self...and self-glorification. Why immerse oneself in opportunities for being drawn into being a PART of the world? Can this not be a quick way into licentiousness? (Sorry, this series on Galatians has gotten to me. :o)
Thoughts?
How far down the line do you want to take that? The very argument you use is the same the Amish use about clothing, which is why they only wear plain clothes. They also use that argument about cars.
I really think that Ali is right and this is getting over thought. Having said that I can see where it would be a liberty issue.
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